Apr 14 21:58:38 now they have solaris running on the imacs Apr 14 21:59:41 oh geeze Apr 14 21:59:54 overpriced hardware with underpowered software Apr 14 21:59:54 heh Apr 14 22:00:22 did you see the latest comparison of linux/windows security? Apr 14 22:00:36 http://blogs.zdnet.com/threatchaos/?p=311 Apr 14 22:00:38 oh geeze.. naw, what'd they say this time? Apr 14 22:00:44 not what they said Apr 14 22:00:48 what they showed Apr 14 22:00:49 haha Apr 14 22:00:55 they mapped out system calls Apr 14 22:01:03 and compared them with images Apr 14 22:01:25 I still don't get this whole "apple is uber expensive" jazz Apr 14 22:01:27 it's really not Apr 14 22:01:34 haha, nice image Apr 14 22:01:36 give me a solid comparison Apr 14 22:01:39 yes it is rage Apr 14 22:01:49 laptops, definitely not Apr 14 22:01:50 always has been - shit, price out comparable systems Apr 14 22:02:03 imacs are a deal Apr 14 22:02:29 not gettin suckered into this "conversation" again Apr 14 22:02:30 give me a solid comparison then, because no one yet has given me solid data to back up what they believe Apr 14 22:02:31 a beautiful 20" flat panel would cost you half the price of the imac Apr 14 22:02:41 amrit, we are offended Apr 14 22:02:46 haha Apr 14 22:02:47 amrit, we love to sucker you Apr 14 22:03:00 * RageMax waits Apr 14 22:03:00 bite me csmizzall Apr 14 22:03:05 man....we are almost like a strange family Apr 14 22:03:20 disfunctional... Apr 14 22:03:24 how long has it been Apr 14 22:03:30 I am horrible with dates and time Apr 14 22:03:53 Rage, dawg, lemme tell you what's gonna happen. i'm gonna say something. you're gonna refute it. i'm gonna say that's bullshit, and give X, Y, and Z as evidence, then rant on it for an hour. at the end, you'll say "meh, i don't believe that". that's how these mac conversations always go. no wastey timey for amrit. Apr 14 22:03:53 because my theory is that this whole "expensive" mantra has just carried over from the dark apple days Apr 14 22:03:54 I know I met most of you guys in the linuxnewbies channel or whatever Apr 14 22:04:10 you wasted all that time typing that Apr 14 22:04:10 amrit: If I'm wrong, I'll say I'm wrong Apr 14 22:04:22 I just have never seen someone do a side to side comparison, ever Apr 14 22:04:31 spec to spec Apr 14 22:04:47 nnngh. Apr 14 22:04:50 it should be easy now that they've gone to intel chips Apr 14 22:04:57 amrit, if I move to cali we gotta get together and hang out Apr 14 22:05:03 f'sho Apr 14 22:05:27 ok, I'll do it then Apr 14 22:05:28 how many years have we all been talking Apr 14 22:05:32 its been a while Apr 14 22:05:40 what's more fair, dell or ibm laptop comparison to a macbook pro? Apr 14 22:06:53 ... Apr 14 22:07:03 I'm being serious and logical about this, I'm not joking Apr 14 22:08:01 wow Apr 14 22:08:02 7 years Apr 14 22:08:06 well longer Apr 14 22:08:57 fine, fine. i'll at least answer that one - i'd never buy a pos dell, so i _would_ say thinkpad. but, i won't, cuz if you ask me, the thinkpad is a far superior machine to any other laptop ever made (including your precious mac), so yes, it's more expensive as well - it won't win many bang for buck comparisons Apr 14 22:09:12 if you're trying to go spec-for-spec bang for buck comparison, compare it against a dell Apr 14 22:09:25 if you're trying to compare it against a _good machine_, thinkpad. Apr 14 22:09:51 csmall: yeah Apr 14 22:09:51 alright, let's start with a dell Apr 14 22:09:53 long time, eh? Apr 14 22:10:00 very Apr 14 22:10:02 because the ibm is obviously going to be more Apr 14 22:10:08 I mean, we're border line married Apr 14 22:10:23 lol Apr 14 22:10:31 IBM = linux friendly Apr 14 22:10:33 :D Apr 14 22:10:41 we're mostly an IBM shop Apr 14 22:10:48 I love the servers Apr 14 22:11:23 if they were really ibm friendly, they wouldn't stick you with ati pos video chipsets :/ Apr 14 22:11:40 buddy at work has a really nice T60, can't even use accelerated video on it (yet) Apr 14 22:11:43 surprise, ati v5200 Apr 14 22:11:46 hmmm....they arn't all Apr 14 22:12:08 really? i thought they were ati exclusive in laptops Apr 14 22:12:59 I dunno about laptops Apr 14 22:13:03 I just use the servers Apr 14 22:13:11 the last thinkpad i had was a 600E Apr 14 22:13:19 oh, that's all i was talking about... heh, only prebuilt system i'd ever buy is a laptop, cuz that's the only shit that's a pain to build yourself ;) Apr 14 22:14:00 hrm Apr 14 22:14:10 does dell even sell core-duo laptops? Apr 14 22:14:16 can't find them Apr 14 22:14:35 i would expect so.. ibm's had them for months or something Apr 14 22:14:44 hrm Apr 14 22:15:16 http://www1.us.dell.com/content/topics/segtopic.aspx/dare_to_compare?c=us&cs=19&l=en&s=dhs Apr 14 22:15:17 heh Apr 14 22:16:50 found it Apr 14 22:17:03 heh, seriously... Apr 14 22:17:09 first damn thing i see at each of the stores Apr 14 22:17:12 dell store and apple store Apr 14 22:17:15 let's look at the apple: Apr 14 22:17:42 "macbook pro" (aka homo fabulous): 512mb, 80gb, 1.83ghz core duo - price? $1999 Apr 14 22:18:16 dell: core duao 1.83, 1gb, 80gb, (and usual shit that the mac has, burner, wireless, etc) Apr 14 22:18:23 $899 Apr 14 22:18:26 wtf, you know? Apr 14 22:18:32 can't get a dell with os x and xp on it though Apr 14 22:18:35 heh Apr 14 22:19:14 csmall: don't make me go off on that pos wannabe OS again - "i'm gonna say something. you're gonna refute it. i'm gonna say that's bullshit, and give X, Y, and Z as evidence, then rant on it for an hour. at the end, you'll say "meh, i don't believe that". that's how these mac conversations always go. no wastey timey for amrit." Apr 14 22:19:25 that's exactly what happened last time Apr 14 22:19:26 _exactly_ Apr 14 22:19:35 amrit: link to that? Apr 14 22:19:49 lol Apr 14 22:19:50 I see 1800 with 512M on the dell Apr 14 22:19:59 the inspiron 9400 Apr 14 22:20:14 http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?c=us&cs=19&kc=6V436&l=en&oc=E1505DTC&s=dhs Apr 14 22:20:22 if that doesn't work, it's the "E1505 Dual Core" Apr 14 22:20:49 i don't even know how i got here Apr 14 22:20:51 i went to dell.com Apr 14 22:20:54 clicked on notebooks somewhere Apr 14 22:20:57 saw core duo, clicked on it Apr 14 22:21:04 and it brought up this shit, so i went for it Apr 14 22:21:06 * amrit shrugs Apr 14 22:21:47 and exactly wtf, may i ask, were apple's "dark days"? you mean last year, when they were still on ppc, and they were STILL expensive as fuck? back then nobody ever even disputed the cost difference Apr 14 22:21:51 cuz you just plain couldn't Apr 14 22:22:01 yet all the fanbois still loved the macs. would those be the dark days...? Apr 14 22:22:23 i swear, this whole zealotry bullshit makes _no_ sense Apr 14 22:22:35 it's damn near as dumb as the christianity crap, heh Apr 14 22:22:37 "jesus saves" Apr 14 22:22:40 "steve programs"...? Apr 14 22:23:29 * amrit waits for the "meh" Apr 14 22:23:57 i mean, shit, don't even get me started on the B&M laptop deals Apr 14 22:24:10 $300 bucks for a fucking laptop? your damn mac mini isn't even nearly that cheap Apr 14 22:24:30 * amrit looks around.. topic change anyone? Apr 14 22:24:58 stop trying to defend steve jobs' ego and do something with your life, geeze. Apr 14 22:26:11 damn dude calm down Apr 14 22:26:12 heh Apr 14 22:26:17 see? Apr 14 22:26:21 not a response to anything Apr 14 22:26:31 surprise, anyone? Apr 14 22:26:43 alright, well this is what I found Apr 14 22:26:46 http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?c=us&cs=04&kc=6W300&l=en&oc=i9400lo&s=bsd Apr 14 22:27:18 ? Apr 14 22:28:47 the other one was entry-level, this isn't Apr 14 22:28:58 define entry level Apr 14 22:29:19 home user Apr 14 22:29:30 IN NON-ARBITRARY TERMS. Apr 14 22:29:33 i fucking swear. Apr 14 22:29:35 taken from the fact that it ships with windows media edition Apr 14 22:29:58 this one ships with XP pro Apr 14 22:30:30 millions, and i'll repeat, millions, of people buy computers with less than MCE - they buy shit with XP Home - and they're perfectly happy with it. that doesn't have shit to do with it - evne if you wanted XP Pro on the "entry level" one, you'd still be looking at about 1100 or 1200. Apr 14 22:30:39 what I'm saying is Apr 14 22:30:43 nothing? Apr 14 22:31:02 the one you gave is comparable to an ibook - entry level, this is a more professional laptop Apr 14 22:31:14 so how much is an intel ibook? Apr 14 22:31:22 they don't exist yet Apr 14 22:31:25 oh, that's right. Apr 14 22:31:36 kinda sucks, huh? can't buy an x86 apple laptop for under 1,999. Apr 14 22:31:42 yet apple isn't "too expensive" Apr 14 22:31:51 it's carried over from "the dark days" (last year, btw) Apr 14 22:32:16 POINT - i want an x86 laptop for _mobile computing_ Apr 14 22:32:28 i don't want to spend 2000 bucks on it. Apr 14 22:32:35 what do i go with? something obviously not apple. Apr 14 22:32:38 neither do I Apr 14 22:32:52 yet you'll hold out - for something that'll still be more expensive, regardless. Apr 14 22:32:52 I agree, it's about 200 bucks overpriced Apr 14 22:32:55 face it, that's what apple does. Apr 14 22:33:02 but it's not THAT overpriced Apr 14 22:33:11 dell is selling 3200 laptops Apr 14 22:33:12 * amrit shakes his head Apr 14 22:33:36 so, were you wrong, RageMax? Apr 14 22:34:20 * amrit waits .... Apr 14 22:34:22 heh Apr 14 22:34:27 come on, you can say it. Apr 14 22:34:32 after all, you'll admit it if you're wrong. Apr 14 22:34:35 by 200 I was Apr 14 22:34:52 nice, so you're at least a tiny bit different from the rest of the rabid fanbois :) Apr 14 22:35:10 although, considering dell's shitty build Apr 14 22:35:15 see, here we go again Apr 14 22:35:22 just saying Apr 14 22:35:24 start of the comparison - sure, we'll compare dell vs apple Apr 14 22:35:29 what's ibm charging, curious Apr 14 22:35:31 end of comparison, where apple loses - well, dell is inferior Apr 14 22:35:35 ibm charges a lot Apr 14 22:35:42 but you agreed with me that dell was inferior Apr 14 22:35:46 if we are talking about 200 dollars, and comparing quality of hardware builds....you get what you pay for Apr 14 22:36:07 csmall: but what RageMax doesnt' tell you is, we're really talking about $700-1100 Apr 14 22:36:16 csmall: he wants you to only compare against the inspiron 9xxx Apr 14 22:36:17 ok, what I gather, people always say apple is the most expensive no matter what Apr 14 22:36:35 why shouldn't I compare against inspiron? it's the professional dell laptop series Apr 14 22:36:45 macbook pro is not a home user laptop Apr 14 22:36:52 RageMax: homeboy got a T60 for 2500ish, but that was on employee discount. original was closer to 3500, i think. core duo 2.0, 2gb, 256mb ati, 100gb 7200rpm, etc Apr 14 22:36:55 I would never buy it Apr 14 22:37:00 boy I tell ya, apples hold their resale value Apr 14 22:37:31 I sold my nearly 5 year old ibook *in parts* for a total of $600 too Apr 14 22:37:48 RageMax: this is the last time i'm gonna ask - define fucking professional. the specs are there. the installed os doesn't matter, _at_ _fucking_ _all_. if you were to bitch out and rely on that as your only remaining point, then fine - buy the XP Pro upgrade, for what, $100? and still save $900 on that shit Apr 14 22:38:00 ok ok Apr 14 22:38:03 build quality and installed OS Apr 14 22:38:05 RageMax: again, because mac fanbois are idiots, and will pay extra for shit christened by The Steve Apr 14 22:38:05 this is going nowhere Apr 14 22:38:08 heh' Apr 14 22:38:09 build quality my ass Apr 14 22:38:12 csmall: didn't i predict this? Apr 14 22:38:15 didn't i fucking predict this? Apr 14 22:38:17 you did Apr 14 22:38:22 * amrit had higher hopes for RageMax :( Apr 14 22:38:24 I already said you won Apr 14 22:38:28 fuck it though, you just cannot fucking help some people. Apr 14 22:38:39 then stop making excuse for apple! i tried to avoid this whole damn thing Apr 14 22:38:44 from a spec to spec comparison, but there are other factors Apr 14 22:38:45 did you think i was just talking out of my fuckin ass? Apr 14 22:38:56 and it's NOT THE MOST EXPENSIVE OUT THERE given the hardware Apr 14 22:39:04 I just have never seen someone do a side to side comparison, ever Apr 14 22:39:04 spec to spec Apr 14 22:39:06 which is the argument I'm trying to prove wrong Apr 14 22:39:12 gee, where did the "other factors" go there? Apr 14 22:39:18 before, you know, you know that apple lost. Apr 14 22:39:20 *knew Apr 14 22:39:33 RageMax: _nobody_ has ever said that Apr 14 22:39:41 _anyone_ who has heard of the name "thinkpad" knows that's completely fucking wrong Apr 14 22:40:00 then what's with the bashing then Apr 14 22:40:01 hell, sun had laptops _years_ ago that cost nearly 10k Apr 14 22:40:23 why don't people go after ibms then, and I think I know the answer Apr 14 22:40:23 oh Apr 14 22:40:30 RageMax: BECAUSE OF PRICE Apr 14 22:40:38 same reason we don't buy apples Apr 14 22:40:46 amrit this is that kuberik thing i was talking about, you'll recognize it i'm sure Apr 14 22:40:57 is it such a stretch of logic for you to understand this? Apr 14 22:40:58 no, I mean, why don't people bash ibms on the price Apr 14 22:41:12 http://ichris.ws/files/kubrick-screenshot.png Apr 14 22:41:13 build quality no? Apr 14 22:41:24 they're a solid product Apr 14 22:41:55 RageMax: because there are very, very few rabid thinkpad fans. you talk to people, and they say "if you can afford it, get a thinkpad. if you can't, GET A FUCKING DELL." ask an apple kiddie? "OMFG APPLE + OSX" Apr 14 22:42:22 csmall: ahhh, that's the default drupal theme now, no? Apr 14 22:42:31 i fucking swear, how much time have i wasted on this already? Apr 14 22:42:33 i told you i wouldn't, too. Apr 14 22:42:35 i need to stop. Apr 14 22:42:36 maybe, but every cms on the planet has a port of it Apr 14 22:42:42 you're the one getting all worked up Apr 14 22:42:43 csmall: yeah, it's all over the place :/ Apr 14 22:42:43 heh Apr 14 22:42:46 stop dude Apr 14 22:42:51 spec to spec, you're right Apr 14 22:42:58 ok Apr 14 22:43:02 change of topic Apr 14 22:43:05 see? still havent' responded to half the shit i said, all you can do is work around it with "calm down" and "you're the one getting worked up" Apr 14 22:43:06 MARKETING Apr 14 22:43:09 OMG Apr 14 22:43:16 yet you weren't getting worked up, trying to bait me with "*Ragemax is waiting...."? Apr 14 22:43:24 csmall: yeah yeah Apr 14 22:43:24 fine Apr 14 22:43:26 hehe Apr 14 22:43:33 we live in a world where people advertise "real white chicken meat" as a amazing thing Apr 14 22:43:39 WTF?? Apr 14 22:43:51 Now with REAL white chicken Apr 14 22:43:57 wtf did I eat last month Apr 14 22:44:14 fake chicken? Apr 14 22:44:41 New McDonalds Chicken strips made with REAL white chicken meat